GOD BLESS AMERICA...
And you went down a bomb?
"Well, yes. It was very hysterical, very wild, very passionate, very moving. All those things people never believe! It was really quite stunning, even for me, to see it happen.
"It's quite difficult. When you play concerts in America which are highly successful, it really colours your vision of the entire country. You're quite reluctant to think of the bad points because suddenly it seems like the most perfect patch of land on this planet. I've been there many times and had many unshakeable criticisms - which have now, of course - been shaken.

So you'll never be mentioning them again?
"No, no, no, no. How could I for heaven's sake?"

How did the American crowd react to the Smiths?
"For me to say it was more fanatical than anything that's happened in England would seem somehow to decry or look down upon what happened here - which, of course, I never could. But it was certainly quite dramatic. And I really don't believe it happens to everyone.
"We went over there I think, with quite a humble nature and we didn't expect any fanatical fervour or uncontrollable hysteria. Therefore, when it happened I was rendered speechless for months.
"Meeting the people there was an extraordinary eye opener because one is fed all these fixed impressions of the American music buying public and they didn't turn out to be that way. They turned out to be rational, incredibly sensitive poetic human beings."

Or the Smiths' fans were?
"Of course!"

I hear you weren't very impressed with New York.
"No, not really - it's just a bit too grimy for my nature. I think generally it's a very dirty place. I think the people of New York will agree with me - I don't feel I'm saying anything violently evil here - I just found it a little bit too tense: too desperate. And smelly. Oh - maybe that's carrying it a bit far! London is a haven of cleanliness in comparison. One could almost eat off the streets of London without fear of catching any exciting diseases."

IMMORTALITY - AND THINGS...
Are you making lots of money now?
"No - which I think is the crux of the present dilemma. I'm still too much acquainted with the whole aspect of poverty. I personally work 24 hours of every single day of the week - relentlessly - and the dividends in that area certainly don't pay off.
"In artistic ways they do because the records are successful, but I'm tired of being broke - very tired of that and it's especially hurtful when you meet so many in the industry who don't quite have your status but are laughably rich."

'Meat Is Murder' got to number one...
"Yes it did, but its lifespan was embarrassingly short. Embarrassingly short - and the amount of media attention that that LP had was extraordinary. Yet it really couldn't hold on. It dropped from the national 100 after 13 weeks. Our singles are known as fast sellers - they're there for two or three weeks and then they're gone - which doesn't really equal our status and the respect the Smiths have.
"On all instances when it's left up to the Smiths alone, we are unbeatable. I find when we have to rely on others we always seem to be behind everyone else.
"There's only so much you can cling to - your credibility, your staunch creativity, your belief in small cottage industries - whatever. You have to be realistic.
"'Shakespeare's Sister' - regardless of what many people feel - was the song of my life. I put everything into that song and I wanted it more than anything else to be a huge success and - as it happens - it wasn't. We can talk about independents and majors till the end of the day - but ultimately, when you make a good record, you want it to be heard.
"A lot of people will say 'You are big - you are heard, you do have your army of apostles - what are you complaining about?' But I'm in there everyday and I'm the one who knows that the profile we have on radio and television should be higher. But I still believe that the Smiths can become the most successful force in music."

How would that...
"She says, nodding off..."

Not at all - I'm just wondering what that would mean in real terms?
"I think we know what that means in real terms. I think it would mean dramatic record sales - just unfathomably dramatic record sales - unbearable record sales!"

Platinum discs?
"Well, they come into it. But, you know, you can't avoid platinum discs. We can snigger but they're just something that's thrown in along the way - along one's journey to, umm, immortality! But if the records are good, then global, religious success is completely understandable."

Are you willing to give yourselves over completely to the industry to attain this mega success then?
"Well, my belief now is that because we have such unusual control over the situation, all these things can be covered in a very skillful and artistic way," (eyes turning heavenward). "See how I got out of that one!
"Obviously, we've avoided video for all our career - and it's paid tremendous dividends and it's been somewhat of a blot on the face of the industry. I always said that we could become successful without a video and we have done, so the point has been proved," (pause). "I'm not leading up to saying we're about to make a video." (NB: he is) "But it would be nice to make some kind of a..."

Film?
"Film - yes! It would be nice to do that - obviously with the height of artistry and skill."

IDOLISATION AND EYE PATCHES
Have you ever come face to face with any Morrissey look-a-likes?
"Yes, on many occasions. The visions of these people remain with me for ever - as you can no doubt imagine. Very encouraging."

What were your thoughts on being on the cover of Pink Industry's last single?
"Oh, it was the highest accolade that one could ever achieve. I thought the picture itself was quite attractive."

You chose it yourself didn't you?
"Yes, I did - which is probably why. It had a serene quality. And the song itself is, of course, mesmerisingly beautiful. Should be an enormous hit."

And it mentions you.
"As a matter of complete trivia, but yes, it does."

What was Pat Phoenix like to interview?
"Oh, she was simply a blizzard of professionalism - of goodwill, of warmth - she was like a hurricane. She just simply exploded into the room and I was quite taken aback by this. You simply wanted to rush towards her bosom - he says quite frankly - and - you know - remain there forever.
"There was a lot of Elsie Tanner in her. She likes to feel that she as a person is wholly divorced from that role, but it isn't true. In all the good ways, it isn't true.
"At the end of the day when the interview had happened and we sat and talked about certain things and I was getting ready to leave, she took me aside and said 'You're a very unhappy person'. I was momentarily frozen and she went on to explain why I was unhappy - and why I was ambitious and did things I did.
"It seems that throughout the day she had been analysing the way I am. It was a very solemn half hour for me to listen to because she was so accurate. It seemed at that instance that there was even more to her than I had ever imagined - her skill and her ability as an observant person was quite awesome."

Are you the type of person who stares at famous people when you meet them in the street? Do you ever go up and speak to them?
"Pete Burns. That happened with Pete Burns, but other than that not really."

What fascinated you so much about Pete Burns?
"I think I was primarily fascinated with the fact that he was quite obviously despised by the music industry. And I felt a great affinity with that situation."

Come on, you've never been despised.
"Hmmm... I don't know. Also, Pete has been much maligned and he has a reputation for being difficult and arrogant. And in reality, he's one of the holiest saints that ever walked the earth," (chuckle). "He's a living angel. You seem unconvinced."

Not at all. You obviously have a soft spot for exhibitionists.
"I think if people can't produce art, they have to become a work of art. There are some people - very, very few - who can do both. For me personally, I'd rather produce art than become art. I think Pete often manages both."

You're not supposed to laugh when you say that.
"No, I'm not am I."

Are you ever going to work together?
"I dreamt about this the other night. And I woke up and thought 'I must telephone him now and let's go into the studio today', because sometimes I feel the whole lifestyle of this business should be quite fun and making a record with Pete would be great fun because it's always hysterically funny to be around him."

DEAR MORRISSEY...
If you'd written the song 'Reasons To Be Cheerful, Pt III', what would be in it?
"I think it would have been an instrumental."

What if you'd been forced?
"I'm never forced. I'd rather walk the plank than submit to any pressure. So, no, it would have definitely been an instrumental."

Do you feel any great need to keep up the Morrissey identity - the image of the miserable bugger?
"I think that when you begin to shuffle towards the position I'm in now, you begin to examine the meaning you have to so many people. And I know that there are many people out there who are Smiths' devotees - and are quite willing to accept the fact, and expect, that I will be found dangling from some bannisters or swinging from the rafters in some darkened church.
"Yes, I do understand the identity that I have - and that can sound quite shallow, it can sound as thought I'm almost manufacturing a face that goes on display, but if you really think about it, every living individual almost manufactures the face that they display - regardless of whether they're anonymous or they're famous.
"People seem to treat me in a very awkward manner. I find that almost nobody is ever familiar with me. Nobody ever slaps me on the back for instance, and nobody is willing to dump their defences in front of me. Regardless of what you or I think, a lot of people do seem to feel that I live on the emotional edge and I'm very precious and can only be touched with velvet gloves.
"I find it very uncomfortable when people put impossible demands on you or demand personal involvement with their domestic affairs - ask me about the treatment of their grandmother or something."

So you've become a sort of agony aunt? Dear Morrissey...
"Yes, yes. In fact, I've been asked to sit in on a weekly television programme - some sort of agonising slot for solving problems. Which, when you look at me and consider my history and present condition... If anything I should be asking them for advice."

This interview was originally published in the August 3, 1985 issue of Record Mirror magazine.
Reprinted without permission for personal use only.